Dinosaurs on Titan?

Dinosaurs on Titan?

Where else do those “fossil fuel” lakes come from?

Hydrocarbon seas on Titan,” reads the headline. Researchers from Cornell University posit that the frigid, liquid methane-soaked landscape on Saturn’s largest moon Titan could “give rise to and support life.”

As far as we know, the researchers said, Titan is the only world – other than Earth – where lakes, rivers and waterfalls carve and sculpt the landscape.

Peering through Titan's haze - NASA
Peering through Titan’s haze – NASA

Except these “”waterfalls” contain no water. Titan’s lakes and rivers are made of liquid methane and ethane.

Methane and ethane. Aren’t those considered fossil fuels?

Haven’t we been told that fossil fuels were created through the decomposition of dead plants and animals?

Haven’t we been told that fossil fuels, including petroleum, are biotic; that they are formed when large quantities of dead organisms buried far beneath the surface of the earth are subjected to intense heat and pressure?

Are we to believe that Titan’s vast hydrocarbon lakes were formed the same way, from large quantities of dead plants, zooplankton, algae and yes, even dinosaurs?

Are hydrocarbons abiotic?

Or is possible that the late Thomas Gold (also of Cornell University) was correct in saying that hydrocarbons are abiotic, created naturally from non-living resources?

“The quantity of black coal and petroleum (and especially its natural gas component, methane) are far greater than could be explained by any theory that depends on buried biological debris,” said Gold.

Uranus and Neptune also have large admixtures of carbon in their atmospheres, said Gold in his 2001 book The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of fossil fuels.”

“It is now generally agreed that there is a profuse supply of hydrocarbons on many other bodies of the solar system, where no origin from surface biology can be suggested,” said Gold. “I am sure that there were no big stagnant swamps on Titan.”

Hydrocarbons and nitriles constantly fall from Titan’s skies, said the late Carl Sagan. Titan is socked in as a haze of organic solids formed high in its skies slowly fall and accumulate on its surface. (Carbon rain, in other words.)

Oceans of water are impossible on Titan (it’s too cold), but “vast quantities of hydrocarbons are expected,” said Sagan.

So let me ask you, if Titan’s “fossil fuel” lakes were not formed from dead plants and animals, including dinosaurs, why should earthbound hydrocarbons be any different?

(I talk more about carbon raining from the sky in Magnetic Reversals and Evolutionary Leaps. See chapter 12, “Carbon Rain.”)

Also see my website concerning evolutionary leaps


22 thoughts on “Dinosaurs on Titan?

  1. The concept that crude came from dinos and plant life has always been a little out in left field to me. In order for all these layers of rock and deep pockets of organic debris to exist requires the surface of the planet to regularly go up and down, like the pistons in an engine. I’ve never been able to get a handle on the idea that if I dig 5000 feet down, I am some how going back in time. As I said, the only way that could work is if the surface of the Earth pumped up and down like the pistons in an engine. I don’t believe that to be likely. It is a lot like looking to the farthest part of the Universe to see the beginning, ignoring the fact that what you are receiving from “out there” at 8 billion light years HAD to be OUT THERE 8 billion years ago, not at the center or near it. How does the past get buried in the ground? some giant with a spatula come along and turn the ground over every so often so that new stuff can grow on the surface while the older stuff is now buried under strata of rocks? Strange pictures come into my mind when I try to “understand” a lot of “accepted science” these days, and I can honestly say I owe it all to “climate science” for forcing me to think.

  2. Scientists tend to state theory as if it were fact when addressing lay people. They usually make more conditional, qualified statements (“the most widely accepted theory is…the evidence tends to indicate…”) when addressing other scientists. The biotic theory of oil formation is, and always has been, just that, a theory. The past isn’t really a fixed entity; our picture of the past constantly changes as our understanding of the facts changes. But scientists don’t like to admit this to the general public because it diminishes their prestige.

  3. ♫☺ The theory of abiotic origin of oil and gas is not new, it exists already for a long time. I have been discussing about this subject more than 10 years ago. Taken that 0,03 % of the elements on earth is carbon, with a diameter of the earth of 14.000 km there could be a layer of 50 to 90 km thick of carbon all around the earth. Much of this carbon is stored in carbon minerals like marble and limestone, (ancient lifeforms ) Only a small part of it in life forms. There rests a huge amount of carbon that can be found deep down under the surface, where it is transformed in carbon rock (stone coal) methane, oil, diamonds and many other chemicals. This should not be a theory, because it seems too logical. Probably the same happens on other planets and moons. There, there are no detectable lifeforms, so the formed carbon products appear directly on the surface. ☺♪

    • Not sure what you mean by Carbon is 0,03% of the elements on earth. Carbon is the 15th most abundant on earth and the 4th OR 6 th most abundant in the universe depending on your source. Basically you can’t swing a dead cat at someone or something with carbon in it.

  4. Even Al Jazeera (a strong global warming advocate news agency) brings the news about the cold crisis in Peru:
    Severe winter chill grips Peru
    Livelihoods under threat as intense cold spell of weather sweeps across the Peruvian Andes
    A state of emergency has been declared in the southern Peruvian Andes where bitterly cold weather has killed thousands of animals, devastating the largely indigenous families that raise them.
    The government have promised $3m in relief following the death of 50,000 alpacas. Around 300,000 camelids are also under threat as overnight temperatures continue to fall to around minus 23 Celsius.
    Peru is the world’s largest producer of alpaca wool and has around four million of the camelids. Unfortunately, the high-altitude rural hamlets where the animals have been raised for centuries are among the most deprived in Peru.
    More than 120,000 families here make less than half the country’s minimum wage, so any loss of livestock represents a major financial loss.
    Government sources say that this cold season has led to an estimated 14,000 children in the Andes suffering from respiratory illnesses. So far 105 have died.

    Reader’s comment: The Dutch MSM keeps quiet about Peru.

  5. Most folks are unaware of this as it’s only come to light in the past two years prox; The Russians discovered that when drilled deep enough there is an endless supply of oil that can be extracted from their wells. Many deep well projects the Russians have developed are able to have a strong continues never depleting supply of crude oil flow to the surface.

    The reports I read some time back said they had actually discovered oil can be extracted in a never ending supply when wells are deep enough.

    This may mean that the US isn’t drilling deep enough to get to it’s never ending supply sources. Pretty amazing isn’t it?

  6. Here is the Link to James Kenney’s site on deep oil and gas production. He was one of the founders of GHK that drilled the first 20 – 27000 foot Gas Wells. The theory originated with Dmitri Ivanovich Mendeleev in the late 1800 hundreds.
    Note the: The attempted plagiarism of the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins.
    I’ve been in exploration and production for 50 years and we’ve been engaged in deep drilling since the early 70’s following the success of GHK.


  7. Dino’s, in all likelyhood, did not contribute one iota to the formation of biotic coal or crude. I highly recommend Thomas Gold’s ‘Deep Hot Biosphere’ as required reading for anyone interested in the theories of Oil formation.
    It is almost certain that all of the hydrocarbons on Titan are of Abiotic origin. The temperature on Titan is very cold (−179.2 °C)! It’s so cold that even microbial life would have a difficult time evolving, much less surviving. Titan’s diameter is 50% larger than Earth’s Moon, so likely does not have any active volcanism with which to provide any heat for microbial action at any depth. When the interstellar cloud that condensed into our Solar System formed, the elements were dispersed in such a way as to push lighter elements out farther from the Solar nebula(forming the Gas Giants) and the heavier elements Iron Silicon etc, formed the inner rocky planets.
    On Earth, I think there are both Biotic, and Abiotic processes that contribute to the formation of Methane, Oil, and Coal. Having an enormously thick ‘seed bed’ of biotically produced Lignin- [C9H10O2,C10H12O3,C11H14O4] – the theory postulates that methane (some primordial/some of biotic origin) seeped up from below the massive plant deposits of the Carboniferous, and over millions of years reacted with the lignin to produce coal. Interestingly enough, as Thomas Gold points out in his book, Coal, Oil, and Natural Gas, are more often than not, found superposed one above the other in the same region. This strongly suggests an abiotic component to the formation of these so-called ‘fossil fuels’. Gold theorizes that once the Coal formation process is initiated, it becomes self-sustaining and this explains why some coal formations are thousands of feet thick, much thicker than the source deposits of lignin(dead plant material). The Coal formation is caused by the upwelling of deep primordial methane from the Earth’s mantle. Water(Hydrogen and Oxygen) plays a large role in the formation of Crude oil below the coal, and Natural Gas pockets can occur at all levels of the region(s). Subduction through plate tectonics provides a steady influx of water rich sediment, largely made up of plankton and foraminifera, as well as other particulates that settle on the sea floor. The High pressures and temperatures in the mantle are key to the stable formation of these hydrocarbon deposits. So some of the source material is biotically derived, but the processes that create(and concentrate) the ‘fossil fuels’, are largely mechanical(Abiotic). http://www.pnas.org/content/101/39/14023.full
    ~ ~ ~
    Without Plate Tectonics, and mantle convection, there would be no mechanism by which the Earth could concentrate these hydrocarbon fuels into regions of accessible deposits for our use.

    • Great post Andrew, thanks. Note that the recent probe fly past of Pluto revealed evidence of volcanism – surprisingly – on that dwarf planet smaller than our moon (e.g. the Wright Mons volcano). So one can’t rule out volcanism on Titan.

      • On Triton for ex. There is a type of volcanism called cryovolcanism, It’s cold so not likely the type of molten rock volcanism we on Earth are familiar with. Perhaps the same kind of Cryovolcanism is taking place on Pluto?

    • Extreme temperatures would cook hydrocarbons into CO2, CO and water vapour. This is why abiotic oil is unlikely.
      Below 120 F you get kerogen and above that you get oil and at 160 F you get natural gas. 2000 degree magma will destroy the hydrocarbons.

      • Your first statement would be true at surface pressures, but the enormously high pressures deep in the mantle do not allow for the cooking hydrocarbons to oxidize or be burned off or up. BTW, the mantle does not consist of 2000 degree magma.
        Scientists haven’t written a lot about this, but it’s a certainty that some volcanoes have penetrated into Gas, Oil, and Coal deposits during their eruptive phases. I would think that makes for a very spectacular, explosive and dirty eruption!

  8. The only ‘fossil fuel’ is coal. Petroleum is a mixture derived from Bitumen (C6H6) commonly known as tar. Elements such as Sulfer dilute Bitumen forming Petroleum in its various stages of viscosity.

    Methane (CH4) under extremely high pressure and heat morphs into Bitumen and other gasses like Propane and Butane. The same pressure forces these compounds and mixtures toward the surface of the Earth and are harvested to create modern civilized society.

  9. Sir Fed Hoyle (FRS) said once something like that its stupid that oil came from “squashed fish”! so true. There are also same hydrocarbons in the famous Horse Head nebula. I guess they are also from squashed dinosaurs and fallen forests.

  10. Could be helpful for refueling later.

    Anyway, there’s half a chance there will be a blank sun soon again when the sunspots rotate to the other side.

    It’s probably good the sun has been showing signs of life these last few years.

  11. Anything that is in any way sort of “hydrocarbon” CH is also known as “carbonic acid”. So in this case therefore anything sort of “methane” CH2 onwards is thus carrying the essence or the spirit of life. Lets call it consciousness. For me all “life” chemistry is at its most simple simply CH. There is something about CARBON which is the sixth element of the periodic table of the elements in its interaction with the first element HYDROGEN which the spirit of consciousness in the universe is manipulating into whatever life form it can. Starting with microbial plants and animals and going on to become macrobial plants and animals. Single cells which then communicate into a community thus becoming multi cellular life. Thus the ancient concept of GAIA is actually a provable scientific concept. GAIA is said to be the collective consciousness of all life on Earth. I presume that a similar collective consciousness exists on each and every planet. Including TITAN a moon of the planet SATURN. Thus we progress to the point where presumably the entire universe has a collective consciousness which is what the Arabs call ALLAH or as we say in the English language GOD. Thus GOD is ubiquitous in all things. The universe is GOD and GOD is the universe. Which the Bible scholars trying to understand ancient texts translated erroneously into “In the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD”. As a steady state cosmologist I say there never was a beginning and there never will be an end. So therefore life has always existed and will always exist. However, life on Earth is temporary. The end is coming. Lack of atmospheric CO2 is the major reason why life on Earth is going to become extinct. I believe the Permian Extinction event was exactly that. The plants all died. Same during the age of the dinosaurs. The plants all died. Now again in the brief age of the humans. All the plants are going to die. All because the idiotic humans, like as the dinosaurs and amphibians all who have died before them, cannot understand even simple chemistry.

    2CO2 + 2H2O = 2CH2 + 2O3^

    2O3 + 2CH2 = 2H2O + 2CO2^


    • The oxygen can be triatomic O3 but is most probably most likely to be diatomic O2. Therefore notice this alternative formula.

      2CO2 + 2H2O = 2CH2 + 3O2^

      3O2 + 2CH2 = 2H2O + 2CO2^

      If the oxygen is mono atomic O. Then the following formula is prevalent.

      2CO2 + 2H2O = 2CH2 + 6O^

      6O + 2CH2 = 2H2O + 2CO2^


      • What I think we will find on TITAN is an abundance of plant life. Any animal life on such a cold planet would have to use HYDROGEN PEROXIDE H2O2 rather than simple water H2O. Hydrogen Peroxide is chemically similar to water, but does not freeze until the temperature is below minus fifties centigrade. If we can find Hydrogen Peroxide on TITAN then it is almost certain that there will be plants, but even animal life too, on that frozen frigid planet.

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