What will people do for food when much of Europe and North America is too cold to farm?

“World temperatures go up and down in cycles but the big cycle that people ignore is the cycle of ice ages.”
– Joseph Kraig

What will people do for food when much of Europe and North America is too cold to farm?

Joseph Kraig

Glacier National Park has had signs for the last quarter century reminding visitors that the glaciers were getting smaller due to global warming. Last year they had to be taken down because the glaciers have been advancing for the last several years.

It is true that snow melts in the summer. Where there are glaciers there is an imbalance of melting to snowing accumulation. When glaciers advance it is telling us that there is less melting than snow fall.

For several years retreating glaciers in Europe have made the headlines with the discovery of human remains found under the glaciers that were exposed due to the retreat. How interesting to think that we fear global warming when it is obvious that the world was once much warmer.

To know that farming settlements on Greenland have had to be abandoned because of global cooling should open a few eyes but sadly it does not happen.

World temperatures go up and down in cycles but the big cycle that people ignore is the cycle of ice ages that say we are near the end of an inter-glacial warm period. We’ve had it nice for the last 11,000-12,000 years but I fear the enjoyable warmth is coming to an end.

What people will do for food when much of Europe and North America is too cold to farm is a mystery to me.

Sounding the alarm of global warming might be a popular thing to do but it is a mistaken viewpoint not based on science or history but on emotion.

People think, “all those cars must be hurting the environment, lets get rid of them.” They use global warming as the reason to get rid of fossil fuels but they are terribly misguided. There is no proven research to say that carbon dioxide actually traps heat as in the so called greenhouse effect, in fact there is research that debunks that idea. Our carbon-based fuels have allowed us to have our modern civilization. We will need our carbon based fuels until fusion fuels can be developed that work. Fusion-based economy is always just 30 years around the corner. I’m sure we will develop the fusion economy and it may really just be years away. However long it takes, fossil fuels will effectively sustain us very well until then.

I have no problem with Solar and wind power. I have two homes and have solar power on both of them, but the entire earth fitted out with windmills and solar panels will not satisfy our tremendous need for energy with any reliability. Harvesting the sun’s energy is a grand idea, perhaps many square miles of solar panels in space and the energy beamed back to earth would be nearly as economical as fusion plants but I don’t think so.

People should not speak in ignorance. What has happened to our society is that many people listen to a tiny fraction of science and make a decision of what is best for the world based on that. A tiny fraction of of information used to make a decision when much more information should be used is still ignorance.

40 thoughts on “What will people do for food when much of Europe and North America is too cold to farm?”

  1. Well, one of the questions I guess will be whether North Africa would remain a desert under such circumstances or whether cooler temperatures and greater rainfall would emerge to allow soil to develop and crops (perhaps tree crops) in North Africa?

    Much of what needs to happen is a migration of crops south in such a scenario: the most northerly areas might no longer be self-sufficient in soil-grown crops, but further south what will need to happen is an adaptation to different growing regimens.

    However, a pertinent question actually covers whether summers will be much colder or whether a more continental-style cold winter hot summer climate might emerge? Average annual temperatures are not what is important. What is actually important is the average temperature during the growing season and the number of reliably frost-free days from mid spring to mid-autumn.

    • I’d like to add here that, if the “global” (overall) temperature drops and stays dropped, and ice sheets start forming again (no seasonal meltbacks, period) – all of which is possible – there might be enough water vapor in the atmosphere to produce prolonged fall-through-spring cycles, VERY short summer (no real meltback), and land area expansion, both inland and coastal.
      That would likely take several decades, but it is entirely possible it starts sooner, rather than later. Look at the wide swings in the Rossby waves in the jet stream. That has a lot to do with it.
      Didn’t really warm up here (upper Midwest) until mid-May, and cold weather started in October, instead of the usual first-frost-warm-spell autumn.
      That’s been happening here for a while now.

      • Earth’s biosphere is bistable wrt to solar-driven thermal storage – either very warm and envloped in dense cloud and rainforest, or very cool and covered with ice with a permanently crystal-clear sky – forget about precipitation.

        We’re currently in an unstable period, probably commencing with the loss of global cloud cover at the time of Noah, and on the path to the cold side of the cycle.

        Once the atmospheric water vapor dips below a certain threshold due to cooling temperatures, the loss of the corresponding atmospheric greenhouse effect and the increasing reflectivity of global ice sheets will cause global cooling to cascade and clamp at the self-limiting state of global ice, clear skies and a permanent worldwide freeze.

        The Ice Age will be stable at that point, possibly lasting for centuries or millennia, and will only start warming up very gradually, depending on what the Sun decides to do next.

        The opposite extreme, ie, steaming rainforests and permanent thick cloud cover, is a similarly stable and self limiting state at the other cycle extreme – also quasi permanent depending on the Sun’s disposition. But that’s not our current trajectory.

        Whatever cooling process is currently underway, we migh remain in the unstable transitory band for years, decades or even centuries yet. But once that critical threshold is crossed, the deep freeze will happen very rapidly – maybe only years or even months.

    • Rhys,
      I am responding to your comments about the greening of the Sahara Desert.

      The Sarah has certainly been lush in the past but I don’t think it was during the last ice age. However long Humans have occupied the planet civilizetions only started advancing in this interglacial period and they first came to what we now call the Fertile Crescent which is basically northern Africa. The fact that we don’t have evidence of civilization earlier than that is an indication that what we now refer to as the Sahara Deaert was as inhospitable over 12000 years ago as today.

      I’m not saying that the North African deserts couldn’t desertify but if the recent past 12000 years or so are any indication of what is to come then I would not hold out hope for a green Sahara Desert.

      • Higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere would be more especially benefitting to places like the Sahara. Plants need less water at higher CO2 levels and can handle higher temperatures.

  2. Will the centers of population run out of food or water first? A lack of transport of energy resources into such areas through logistics bottlenecks, may be under-appreciated. Buy popcorn.

      • I have found that beans stay good for about five years and after that are edible but not as tasty. Rice I have stored for 10 years is still quite good and even some is OK after 20 years. Wheat should be the same as rice but I find rice easy to cook. Dry grains won’t supply all of your needs but it beats starvation.

    • Really no way to run out of water as it is abundant over the whole planet. Three water wells in both Kenya and Tanzania. 3 wells each in the deserts and each produced 3,000 gal. per min.. Soon we will also have food replicators for food, clothing, furniture, and homes. Will build full sized homes in two days all converting energy from the Sun into matter.

  3. I was born in 1947 in Tampa, Fl. There used to be orange trees all the way up way past Orlando, near Jacksonville. No longer. The major growing areas have been pushed out of Florida’s nothern regions

  4. Well we know Russia and China have been preparing for years. Thats why Russia went into Crimea and Syria for warm weather naval ports, and China has its tentacles everywhere, from Africa which will be a food bowl to buying too much of Australia! (which Australians are turning on!!). They caused fires in Qld and NSW so they could possibly buy that land for their ‘road and belt’ initiative. Our Prime Minister changed some rules so they can’t just come in and take like they have been doing!!

    • That would explain the Red Chinese push into Ecuador and the western Amazon basin. They are building a refinery and extensive highway system across the Andes mountains into the western Amazon. This area could support extensive farming during the next iceage.

    • Russia went into Crimea because the psychopaths in charge of the US wanted it for military bases on Russia’s border and is was once Russian.

      Perhaps you would like a street gang armed to the teeth living right next door to you.

  5. When there is no more food in the stores and people are starving, there will be crowds of people scavenging for something to eat. probable going from home to home, breaking in and taking whatever they can find.
    Most people don’t have any idea how to even garden, not that we could during an Ice age anyway.
    It will be the end times for a lot of the planet. If you live near the equator and survive all the fighting that will happen because of all the new people heading there, then you might survive. If you are to old, like me, then you just hang in there as long as you can, then kiss your ass good-bye! Yippy were all going to die! haha

  6. What will people do for food when much of Europe and North America is too cold to farm?

    I believe this already happened around 1793, Paris ! History does repeat itself! Remember, “Qu’ils mangent de la brioche” (Let them eat cake)

    Remember our “Governments” have been pushing what I call the “GloBull Lie”! They will destroy farms just to put in solar and wind power while claiming that “Renewable” will “Fix” the warming by reducing human caused CO2! They will find out the hard way that it won’t stop CO2, yet the cooling will continue no matter what we do. Meanwhile, we shall all suffer with black-outs, job loss, and extremely high taxes!

    As Robert said, “People should not speak in ignorance”. However, they should not govern in ignorance as well! Unfortunately, the Democrats have taken over and will unleash the “Unreliable, Expensive, and Unneeded, New Green Swindle”!
    I am concerned that after they will claim they have “Fixed the Planet” by reducing Human’s insignificant CO2 emissions thereby cooling the Earth instead of telling the truth that the cooling is caused by other forces such as: the Sun!

  7. The elitist UN-sourced nonsense about Co2 has nothing whatsoever to do with the scientific method. It is part of the statist pseudo-Marxist global government putsch aimed at ensuring a future of compliant Eloi.

  8. To restore our self-creative relationship with nature we have to end our self-destructive relationship with democracy.
    ht tps://thelastwhy.ca/poems/2018/11/3/democracy-the-death-of-us

    The COVID-19 is a bug
    That is impossible to see;
    But it is Nature’s weapon in
    Her fight against humanity.
    For centuries the way we’ve lived
    Has been on Nature an attack.
    But Nature seems inclined to live
    So with this bug She’s fighting back.
    We number 7 billion plus,
    Far more than Nature can sustain.
    We’re like a virus killing Her.
    Like one, it seems we have no brain.
    She tried to make a life for us
    On earth that was a wondrous place.
    She even told us how to live.
    In essence we coughed in Her face.
    The COVID-19 is a bug
    We can defeat by our accounts.
    However, it won’t be a win
    The way that Mother Nature counts.
    A win for Nature would result
    In Her sustainability.
    If we do not accept defeat
    That’s not a possibility.
    In order to let Nature win
    This basic fact we need to learn.
    Since normal is what got us here,
    To normal we cannot return.

    You Can ‘Vote and Vaccinate and Brain Damage’ Your Way Into Zombie [‘They Live’] Socialism, But You Have To Shoot Your Way Out.
    ht tps://centerforindividualism.org/you-can-vote-your-way-into-socialism-but-you-have-to-shoot-your-way-out/

    • In reality the earth can easly sustain many more times the population than we currently have. there are nearly 600 million square miles of land in the world, about 200 million square miles of that are tillable. There are 7 and a half billion people in the world. Than means that if you divided up all the land each person could have 17 acres of tillable land. If you divide that population in to families of 5 then each family could have 85 acres, or if they wanted to live in the US you could put all of the worlds population on US farm land and there would be a couple acres for each family. In reality many people would not want to live on a farm so they would live in cities and there would be more farm land available than people to farm. Sustainability is not and will not be a problem that is until fossil fuels are outlawed. When that happens then we will have what Chairman Mao invisioned, each family eeking out a bare living on his little few acres of land. Won’t Progressive utopia be wonderful.

      • That is way off by a factor of 10. The total land surface area of Earth is about 57,308,738 square miles, of which about 33% is desert and about 24% is mountainous. Subtracting this uninhabitable 57% (32,665,981 mi2) from the total land area leaves 24,642,757 square miles.

        Satellite images compiled by scientists at the University of Wisconsin-Madison show roughly 6.8 million square miles used to grow crops, with between 12 and 14 million square miles used to raise livestock. Combined that is 1.5 acres per person.

      • “…there are nearly 600 million square miles of land in the world, about 200 million square miles of that are tillable.”

        You’ve overstated the global land area by about a factor of x10, there’s actually only about 60 million square miles of land on Planet Earth.

  9. Q: What will people do for food when much of Europe and North America is too cold to farm?

    A: The New Atlantians who control the ‘Club Med’ little lattitudes have historically made out just fine for 90 ka stretches at a time.

    In the ‘short term’ it will likely be law of the jungle musical chairs at the big lattitudes (again per ususal). Just ask the “Dead Poets and Ranchers” of Greenland… or the hundreds of millions of flash frozen mammoths that are still frozen ‘stiff’ in the arctic.

  10. no use thinking sth effrika or Aus will be able to step in/up either
    poor soils and lack of water is why Aus is around 25mil pop and really thats pushing limits majority crowded to east coast cities. greenmorons wanting farm land returned to bush creating onerus regs to overcome to DO damned near anything on your OWN land. and the blindingly stupid solar/wind power which wouldnt even run ONE desal plant let alone a city

    • Australia despite its huge size is mostly desert. Only the costal areas and inhabitable and farmable by large numbers which is why all major cities hug the coast.

  11. For most people of Europe, especially the UK, I would say start snacking on grass and tree bark so you get a taste for it. This is because the powers that be here are completely and willfully ignorant of such a chilling likelihood.

  12. This warming period has lasted for 18,000 years. That gave people in what is now Jordan an incentive to settle and start farming about 15,000 years ago. An entire village has been found there, and dates back that far. And that is NOT the shortest warm period on record.
    In regard to farming, which is now a modern industry, if the weather goes sour (which is entirely possible), it won’t hold up well. But you can’t be passive about producing and preserving your own food. Having a real garden, like people used to do, is a possibility. The dismal “everyone will starve” does not acknowledge that people can take care of themselves if they are pushed to do so.
    Moving back to doing things the 18th century way? Not so impossible, and certainly a possibility, but if people just give up without even trying to be resourceful, then no, they won’t do well.

  13. If Ice age approaching while US not get good amount snow and snowstorms this year!! Our area we just dreaming about snowstorms but it not coming yet.

  14. I agree with you about growing your own food,
    however, those that live in the big cities such as New York City have little or no growing space.

    It has been stated that 2 people would need about 40,000 square feet of land (About 1 acre) to grow enough food to sustain themselves. Of course, growing season is shorter the farther north one lives, and extreme weather conditions from day to day can destroy a crop.
    A greenhouse can extend your growing season as well as limit extreme temperature swings. Don’t forget that many animals will look at your greenhouse as a grocery store, so build it strong.
    In my case, the desert southwest near Las Vegas, there are strong wind storms up to 80 mph that can tear down a flimsy greenhouse. One of my greenhouses will be built below ground. At about 6 feet below ground where Mother Earth maintains near 50F degrees year around. Unfortunately, the long hot summers will bake the roots of most raised beds and potted plants, so I will need to include an evaporative cooler to my above ground greenhouses run by an off-grid solar system.
    BTW: If you are thinking of buying solar, then do it soon before the “New Green Swindle” becomes a reality. The high demand will cause the prices to increase quickly!
    Good luck all with your farming.

  15. Most will deny that there is a problem and call it a conspiracy theory. Some will turn cannibal and others will live off the land. Expect migration and starvation also. Political breakdown is a certainty.

  16. This isn’t going to happen overnight now is it. It will be a very gradual process, so we will adapt, as we have always done.

    • Unfortunately, every single ice age during the past 250,000 years began abruptly. And by ‘abruptly,’ I mean that the earth descended from periods of warmth such as today’s into full-fledged glaciation in less than 100 years … sometimes in only 20 years.

  17. The next question is; where will the food come from when the quality farm land is buried under cement? So much of the best farm land is being taken out of food production. Where is the food going to come from?

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